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Original Description
On this episode of Good Guy / Bad Guy…Will UFC 321 decide who the greatest heavyweight is when Tom Aspinall puts his title on the line against Ciryl Gane? Or will another name be making headlines when it’s all said and done? You do not want to miss what the guys think Monday’s headline will be. Then, the women’s strawweight belt is up for grabs in the co-main event. And it’s a rematch five years in the making when Virna Jandiroba takes on Mackenzie Dern. But does their first fight even matter once that Octagon door closes? Plus, to throw in the towel or not throw in the towel? That is the question when it comes to Reiner de Ridder and the decision to save him from being mauled by Brendan Allen in the fifth round last week in Vancouver. Find out if the Good Guy or Bad Guy believe it was the right decision and if it changes RDR’s aura moving forward.
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Video Transcript
Charlie, what's the running back's name? The dad's kind of all over the place. There three of them. One's a wide
receiver for the Amra St. Brown. The St. boys James. Yeah. No, no, it's Amra St. Brown and
his brothers, they're like three NFL, Peyton Manning, LeBron. Yeah. So many of these athletes, but they're
Carol Strawberry.
What's happening, guys? Welcome to another episode of Good Guy Bad Guy. I'm Chale. He's Daniel. I'm at home in
Westland. But Daniel, I don't think you are. What is this backdrop? Where are you at right now? Fight Island. Hey, did you know Fight
Island still exists? No, dude. Fight Island still exists. So, it's not all shut down like it used to
be where it was Yaz Island essentially belong to the UFC. That's not the case.
But, but it's still Yaz Island. We have the golf. We have the car racing
tomorrow. I'm playing in a soccer game. Oh, we just lost the lights. We just lost the lights. We're going to kick
them back on. We're just using the uh we're using like this, you know, you have to have these plugs to plug the
light in to the converter. That's what happened. I guess we just lost our power. Um,
yes. Give me a sec. You got to have special lights. I'm kind of into this. I I hope that they do the show in the dark, but I have a feeling
this is going to this is going to get stood down. There's something funny about this. Kind of sucks that we're going to start over, but reality is this
is how it should be. Sometimes things happen and you kind of roll with the punches. Makes it look live.
On Christmas break when I was in high school, the coach would always have us do one session in the dark and he only
did it on Christmas break. I don't know why, but it was it was wild wrestling in the dark. Hey, I got to be honest, like with
Halloween coming up, I kind of got scared. Oh, you see I unt I unbuttoned my top button, too. I got a little
nervous up in here whenever them lights went out. Tell brothers scared in the dark. You know, back in the day, hey, I
know in Westland, you know, in your mansion that you grew up in, it's not scary in the dark, but in the ghetto
when it gets dark, the roaches come out, the rats come out. It is scary in the
dark, jail. So, I picked my feet up off the ground whenever it got dark up in here. I got to tell you something there,
D. I got to tell you something. You got paid what I believe to be a tremendous compliment. Tom Aspenol, our reigning
star, our reigning undisputed I I think he's still interim champion. Some people say he's not, but he never lost
undisputed champion. At any rate, Tom Aspenol was asked a question and it was, "Hey, who from the
past would have you been scared to fight because you know we would have beat you." It was a very loaded question. Tom
did not pause. He did not hesitate. He said Daniel Cormier. He said he would
have souped me. He would have put me on my head. I'd have never gotten up. The one guy was Daniel Corman. He was just
answering the question, but within that answer, what a compliment. I mean, what a big compliment that Tom's giving. I
gotta tell you, I I wanted to make sure that you had heard it. I told him today, I said, "You I know you were just polishing me up, right?"
But every now and again, Joe, the old man likes to hear, you know, something nice. You know, you walk you walk around
a little more sure after the heavyweight champion goes, "In his day, that was a
bad boy." Right? In his day, that was a bad boy. I love that, man. I love Tom Aspenol is a great guy. and he's a
champion and he's ho he's on the verge of something really really big. So he's
fighting serial gun this weekend at UFC 321. But the problem or not the problem
here's the situation. He has been so dominant in his run to becoming the UFC
champion that it's almost an expectation that he is going to walk through serial
gone. But when you talk to Tom Aspenol or you hear Tom speak, you could tell that he is so motivated and he's so sure
of the challenge in front of him. He knows how good Srogon is. He said they
present the same issues for each other. The quickness, the speed, the striking. He believes that he's in for a long
night against Sirrogon. How good is it for you to hear the champion who's a massive favorite show respect and be
aware of what he's facing on Saturday? It changes everything. I I'm so glad that you just told Miss Dana, I've been a
little bit worried about it. Now, Tom is a guest of the show, you know, but when you have guys on, you start to come on this journey with him and we were
watching him go through different training camps and thinking he was going to fight Jon Jones. So, I I just share with you that, you know, there's a
little bit of a draw towards Tom. And every upset, I don't care if you want to talk about Phelps in the swimming pool
or Serena on on the golf course or Tyson versus Douglas, every upset has one
thing in common, which is the athlete finds himself in a contest harder than they thought it was going to be. And I
have been very worried. Listen, there's one of two things that that all of our viewers and even you and I are guilty
of. Are we overestimating Tom or are we underestimating Surreal? And there is no
third option. Like I mean this the oddsmakers have this as a foregone conclusion. The White House has all but
cleared a spot on the card for for the heavyweight championship of which they believe is going to be Tom Aspenol. Like
he's got to get through Surreal. To hear you say that he's aware. And I love how Tom phrased this. We present the same
problems. Daniel, he's spot on. And I will tell you as a viewer, I'm really glad to hear that that's the frame of
mind he's in. So this is how I look at this fight and I will ask you these questions. I
want you to answer them honestly. When you look at Tom Aspenol and you look at
Sirro Gan, Tom Aspenol has never fought longer than I don't know a round maybe.
So sir Gan being that he's gone 25 minutes multiple times who does the championship experience belong to the
and let me give you and let me give you one long answer to to add to your point. Tom Aspenol has gone a full three rounds
one time and partner it was in the amateurs when they were three threeminute rounds. So his longest match
ever is 9 minutes. His longest match inside of the octagon is roughly seven and a half. He had to get to the second
round to submit former world champion Andre Arloski. I don't love this. The people that are doing on Tom are saying,
"Man, he had six first round finishes." That bothers me. I don't know how those 260 beautiful muscled up body is going
to move at 15 minutes in. I don't know how it moves at 18 minutes in. Surreal Gone is in the five round club. Surreal
Gone has more experience. He's had more championship fights. He's had more main events. And a lot of people do miss
that. There's a number of numbers that favor Tom, but there's a few numbers that favor Surreal. So, that's one right
there. Okay. Has Sel Gan fought bigger? No. No. Would you consider Tom Aspenol a
bigger power threat than Derrick Lewis, who is the knockout king in the UFC? No
one has more knockouts than Derrick Lewis. Would you consider Tom a bigger knockout threat than Derrick Lewis?
No. And can I see your can I see uh your Derrick Lewis and can I raise you a junior dos Santos and a Francis Enano?
I was going to say does is he a bigger power threat than Francis Enanu? No.
No. And at this point the answer is no. However, Daniel I mean he might be. He put down six man in the first round and
Francis did not. But but I'm just saying the questions are still out there on Tom. I'm going to go with no. Okay. So those are things that should
start to say, well, if Sirill managed that, if Sirill managed Lewis, and if
Sirill managed Francis, and if Sirill has been 25 minutes, every bit of that
odd should start to close a little bit. Tom recognizes that. Tom recognizes
that. I just sat with him and that's refreshing from the champion because he knows, he goes, I think the media is
crazy. He said, "The way that they are overlooking Sirroggon is insane to me." He goes, "Cuz everything I said the same
thing I said to you to Tom Aspenol." I go, "He's seen guys, right? They couldn't touch him. He's fast. He's
explosive. He's athletic." I said, "This is a dangerous fight." He goes, "Yes." I said, "Tom, this is the hardest fight of
your career. At least it's supposed to be. But if it isn't, then your career
will go to a level like you have never thought you could ever imagine. They will strap a rocket ship to your back
and they will send you to the moon. If it isn't, but when we look at this and you really start to dig in the numbers
and you really start to look at, forget about the Jon Jones fight because I swear to God, I think people Cassandra
said to me, but look at what Surreal did against Jon Jones. That's a submission.
Tommy ain't going out there trying to submit him, but when it comes to him fighting strikers, we've never seen him do that. But it's because he in his
biggest spot ever, he that happened in the Jon Jones fight. And I believe people are unfairly judging him based on
that when it shouldn't really it doesn't really apply. And I'm just happy to hear that Tom Asenol is not buying into that
junk. It's it's very important. Yeah. I just read a narrative yesterday and I' I' I've had these same thoughts myself, but
Britney Shaw had had made a video went around the internet and he was just talking about that Tom doesn't just have to beat Surreal. He's got to beat
Surreal in a better fashion than Jon Jones beats Surreal. And I have felt I
have felt that same way. But I must tell you, it's only true if Tom thinks it's true. I I am so happy to hear the the
way that Tom spoke to you. And Tom is a very grounded person. And there's even a couple of reasons for that. I've argued
and I'm jumping a little bit off topic. I've argued that one of the reasons to Stipe Miocic's success was the fire
department. The the fact that he was keeping hours and that kept him at home and that kept him off some of the media tours and it kept him at his home gym
and it kept him, you know, with his coaches and his teammates. The reason I use the comparison to Stipe is Tom is
trained by his father. Tom does his first workout of the day in his backyard. Tom is a very grounded and
focused guy from what I know about him. But when you talk about this rocket ship getting strapped to somebody, when you
talk about this this stardom, Daniel, this is a new thing. There is a new level of pressure. And Surreal, make no
mistake, is the biggest threat and the rightful number one contender. Absolutely. Surreal guy has spent the
last three to four years ranked in the top three in the world. Surreal Gan has had four UFC championships fight. Think
about this. a guy Uriah Faber comes to mind as a guy that was never the the the
UFC champion or at least undisputed and got as many chances to win that belt.
Here's why though. The only reason Serel gets so many chances because there's so much turnover at heavyweight. He fought
Derrick Lewis for the interim. He fought Francis for the undisputed. He fought John for the Undisputed. He fought Tom
Aspenol for the Undisputed. Even in that jail, he's had more five round title
fights than Tom Aspenol. Is that Tom's fault? No. It's because he was waiting to fight Jon Jones. But ultimately, you
have two guys that are really evenly matched. So the the the the betting
lines and and the idea and the perception of what this is going to be is so crazy. So for me, I feel like it's
our job to remind everyone why if Tom Aspenol goes out there and he he he
bulldozes this guy or he steamrolls him, we are looking at something so truly
special. But if Sirill wins, it's not because Tom Aspenol didn't do what he was supposed to. It's because Sir Gun is
just that good. I think we have the two best heavyweights in the world right now and they're fighting for the belt. Forget about everything you've seen
before. You worry about what's happening right now. And right now you got these two massive guys, athletes. Yo, Tom told
me today he weighs 263 pounds. Ch. He gained 8 pounds. He's huge and he's
still in shape. Sir looks in best shape of his life. Sir moved to Morocco. He doesn't even live in Paris, France
anymore. He's been training, traveling the world, getting in his wrestling, getting in his grappling. Both of them
know exactly what they needed to do to give themselves an opportunity to walk out of the octagon with that belt on
Saturday night. This is the right fight right now. Hey, let me stand this surreal real fast just cuz you broke something I didn't
know. Where did you say he is doing his training now? Well, he moved to Morocco. He said he hasn't seen his family in 3 months
though. He said he's been to Morocco. He's been to France. He's been everywhere rounding out the skills
because he's trying to be prepared for what he's going to see this weekend inside the octagon. Hey, let me tell you a quick fun fact on Surreal. Last time
Surreal fought in France. This was like the biggest event in the nation at the time that it happened. Well, because the
news was advertising where Surreal was going to be, the bad guys went and brought robbed him. They went and did a
burglary. They went and did a burglary on Surreal Gone's house. You got to have some pretty big stones
as a bad guy to break into Surreal Gone's house. I I got to tell you. That's why he said he moved, Jill. He said he moved because of security. He
said it was dangerous. He said people want to steal from you. People want cuz you're f he's like ultra famous now in
France. So it's like not only is he in danger of just getting swarmed by people, but people that want to steal
from him, uh they follow his life to try to do that. And yeah, I hadn't heard that, but man, what what a a a downer.
Uh whenever you're headlining a card in your home country, hey, the only place worse,
and I I didn't want to believe you. I'm I'm not going to say Atlantic City either. I didn't want to believe you
when you spoke about the Brazilians, but the the Brazilians robbed Jessica Andraj
two days after she became the UFC champion. They took her belt chill. I mean, that is just got that that has got
to be They took the belt. They told me they took the belt chill. The same weekend she dropped Rose
Namunes on her head, she got robbed. You might as well rob the luge. There's nothing you can do with that belt. You
can't go put that belt on on the internet or walk it into a pawn shop. Why would they take the belt? That's
interesting. I did not know that. That's terrible. Hey, when when Tom Aspenol
walked into the octagon five years ago in Abu Dhabi, Michael Bisping said the UFC has something special, could you see
it early that he was going to be a world champion? Yes. I got to tell you, I feel like I I I feel like I beat the drum. I remember
where I was when he was calling me and saying, "Hey, we're going to do this spotlight on on on future guys and you're so big on this Tom Aspenol.
You're going to have to make your case." He'd only fought on undercards and I just remember telling people, "Hey, there's something here, man. There
there's a big talent. There's a special energy. There's a special I like that he was with his dad. I like that he was
this young guy from England, but he was secretly uh, you know, really skilled at wrestling. Spent time doing grappling
tournaments. We don't see Tom grapple much in the octagon. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one time and
that was the time with uh Andre Olowski. But he has competitively grappled and it was one of these things I just thought I
should bring to people's attention and then Bisping stole a thunder man. Bisping become the the the biggest voice
box for Tom Aspenol. But there there is an old expression I would just like to remind you of it because there there is
two different sports that take place. A three round fight is a different sport than a five round fight. And the old
expression for Mike Tyson, you will not win a decision if you look for the finish. If you try to win by knockout,
you will not win a decision. And I do think that that Tom is perhaps guilty of that. He is going to go out there and he
is going to bring a storm. But if Surreal is still left standing, there are so many question marks about how
that 263 lbs is going to move around 18, 22, 24 minutes in.
Yep. It's crazy when you sit down on that stool and the fourth round starts and you're like, are we still doing
this? Like it's actually it's actually crazy going into the fourth and fifth round. It's like, man, I thought when
you the first it's the first one. It's the first one. And that's why I think right now is the time to fight Tom
Aspenol because we don't know. But there's going to come a time chill where you do know how he handles minute 18,
20, 22. And in most cases, a champion will get better or learn at least to
operate in those moments. We saw with Enanu. The first time Andanu fought Stipe for 25 minutes. It looked like
Francis was going to throw up on himself, crap his pants, and just die inside the octagon. He could not stand.
But then after he did it, he kept a little bit in the tank when he fought Stipe in the rematch and knocked him
out. Then he fought Sir for 25 minutes and did fine. It's only a matter of him getting that experience and if he has to
struggle through it, get through it to know that the next time he does it, it's
not as hard and unfamiliar. So, right now is the right time to fight Tom Aspenol if you're anyone. That's why I
think Jones messed up so bad because if you're going to fight Tom, you got to
fight him where those questions lie. Not only in the general public jail, but he doesn't know
what it looks like in that moment, but he will at some point. And when he finds it out, he'll be even more
dangerous. Well, and I I just think that it's this fight. is the reason I keep going back to this
to your point earlier about Derrick Lewis to my point about Junior De Santos to to our point about Francis Sono. I
don't think on the feet it's overly likely that you're going to get Surreal out of there. I really respect Surreal's
kickboxing. I really respect the way that he can move and his past experience. I get he and Izzy's records
mixed up in my head, but he's either uh 27 and two or he was 29 and three in
professional kickboxing. Like, you know, it's the old Breer Rabbit story where he was born and raised in the Brier Patch. And when you throw Surreal into that
kind of environment, man, I I I really think he can thrive. I wonder how Surreal is feeling. I wish that you would have also talked to him, but if he
understood I did. I did. But did you ask him specifically about Tom? Did you say is this guy overrated?
Is this guy overhyped? Surreal had a chance to fight Tom and seemingly avoided that fight at one point.
He said that he had a movie. His manager said they had a movie. So was already determined that he wasn't going to take
the fight. But he, you know, the one interesting thing that I I heard from Surreal Gan was that I said, "Hey, is
this do or die? Is this do or die?" Because you fought for the belt so many
times. If you don't get it done, people don't generally get title fights five times without winning them. He said,
"No, I got time." He goes, "Because every year I'm in the top three guys in the world, and there's so much time, so
many times where a new champion can be crowned in our weight class." He goes, "I've got plenty of time." Siran barely
started fighting. He's only been a UFC fighter for a certain number of years. He's only been fighting professionally
for like eight years. Seven, eight years. Do you like that answer, Ton? Do you like that answer that I have time or would you rather see urgency? Would you
rather see burn your ships? Would you rather see it must go my way? I would I would I would I I see them
both, right? I I like that he he knows that he's only 36 and he still got time
because heavyweights can fight longer. I would have liked to see him say it's do or die because I want it to be. That's
it. Not because it has to be. It's do or die because I could not imagine going into an octagon in the UFC heavyweight
title fight again and it not going my way. That's where I would have liked to seen the urgency. But let me tell you
something. He's confident, too. But the it's a big night for the heavyweights because we have the heavyweight title
fight in the main event. We also got a big heavyweight fight on the main card because Alexander Volkov will fight
against Jault Almeida in a fight ch which may be a number one contender
fight. Do you believe that if whoever wins that fight gets a title
fight? I think that we're most likely in that situation. I I just want to stay on Volkov when you said his name. I I feel
my my heart goes out to Vulov. I feel that Volkov won his last fight which by the way was against many people are saying that to me even
as told me that they thought Volkov beat Gone. Yes. I thought I thought that Volkov won
the fight and he had lost the decision and I know the UFC directly Dana and Hunter right there on the cameras met
Volkov outside of the cage. They felt bad. They they they felt bad but there wasn't anything they can do. I feel that
putting Vulov on this card was because he was going to be the built-in alternate. If anything happened they were going to do anything they could to
to to write the wrong and give it his opportunity. But the next best thing is a number one contenders match. And even
if that isn't clearly identified, it will at least be identified by our rankings committee. I mean, you got you
got number four versus number five, number five versus number six, right? These guys are right up there. So, I do
think that the winner is going to get their acclaim, but with the idea that Pierre could be moving into the
division, the idea that Jon Jones is back in the testing pool, I'm not ready to say that they will fight for the
belt, but they'll be in a very good position. That's my That's That's the same hangup you have is my hang-up in
regards to what's next because they could get told like they literally could
get told walking out of the octagon, you're next. And if Jon Jones says, "I
want to fight for the belt." He's going to get a title fight. If Alex Pereira pushes to go fight the heavyweight
champ, regardless of who it is, they have to listen because ultimately ch it still is a business. It's a business.
and Alexander Volkov and Jault Almeida have
not got there yet. They need big moments. They both have struggled a little bit recently. I mean, Curtis
Blade was able to get through Jotton and that wasn't that long ago. Volkov uh
when he fought Tom got beat in the first round, right? People don't forget that. So, I I think there are some things
working against them in that regard. I think that they could be number one contender, but I think that would be
more by like default. If none of those bigname guys try to impart themselves
into the equation, they will probably get it. But if Jones or or or or uh
Pereira says, "I want it," I'm pretty sure the UFC would listen. And rightfully so, because ultimately it's
about making the biggest fights possible. And those would be two of the biggest fights you could make in the
heavyweight division, especially if it's Aspenol that's holding the belt after
this weekend. Nicole, sorry. Well, thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. We cannot start
planning this division as badly as we're trying to until we know if Tom is holding that belt. I mean, if Tom's not
holding it, I predict for you it's probably going to be Tom versus Surreal in a rematch. But the only reason I'm
even offering that is it is not a foregone conclusion, partner. And people are talking like it
is. We're either overestimating Tom or underestimating Surreal. There's a reason we do the fight. There's a reason
we got him in the cage. And as MMA fans, we don't need this reminder to go back in the the history books. We just need
Saturday when we look at RDR versus Allen. I mean, this is where upsets happen. One guy finds himself in a match
harder than thought it was going to be. Fatigue. Fatigue is one of the few constants that tie our sport all the way
back to the first time that we set that cage up in 1993. It's a very big deal
and surreal is in the five round club. Tom is not. I got to remind you of that.
You know, we'll talk about that cuz I I dude I've been dying to ask you about what you saw last weekend from
Vancouver. But first, the co-main event. McKenzie Durn is taking on Verna Danjidova for the vacant strawweight
championship of the world. Ch. What do you make of this fight? These women have fought before. McKenzie won by
submission, but they're different fighters today. Like that. Vina is not who she was when they fought the first
time. You've heard the term fake black belt. It's very unique decision. Unanimous decision for
McKenzie. Yes. You've heard the term fake black belt. There's even people that go out and like film a fake black belt and
embarrass the guy. All right. Well, I lived a period of time as a fake black belt. Now, it wasn't on purpose. Mark
Schultz told me, Mark Schultz told me, "You are whatever belt you're willing to
compete with. If you claim you're a black belt, then you are." Instantly, I was a black belt. I had never done a day
of jiu-jitsu. I never had a ghee. I didn't even have the belt, but I told people I was a black belt, and I believed it. I was 18 years old. I go
into a gym in Eugene, and there's these two purple belts that aren't crazy about me representing that I'm a black belt.
So, they asked me to work out. They stretch me in every which possible way. Daniel, I had never done this. Now,
these two guys would get on an airplane every Friday in Eugene and they would fly to Arizona. They do three days of
training. They would come back home and this is how they were learning the art back then. They would go to Arizona to train with a guy called Megaton
Wellington. He weighed 160 lbs. But when he was on top of you, he felt like a
megaton. It's where he got the nickname. Megaton Wellington is the father of
McKenzie Durn. Now, I tell you that entire story because she's second generation. She's no different in this
sport than Floyd Mayweather was in boxing. And something special happens
when you have a second generation athlete. And I really like that story. I want it out there because we don't often
see it where it's fatheraughter. We don't often see it where it's jiu-jitsu and or MMA. But she's been prepared for
this moment her entire life. And Mackenzie Durn has one thing other athletes don't. She is a mandate of the
masses. People like her. People want to see her fight. She has shared her private life- with us publicly. She's
shared divorces. She has shared that she lost in court and she's the one that has to write the check each month and she
has to fight because she owes money to this former relationship. All right, we'll stop right there before it gets
any uglier. But I'm just sharing with you her motivations are different. Her motivations are she was trained
different. She was trained like a boy. She was trained like a man. And I bring that to you just because I just think
it's an interesting story. It doesn't have a lot to do with this fight. I just thought you'd appreciate the story. No, it's a great story because it is
what we see in so many sports. Right. Right now you have um the running back
from the uh what's the guy's name? Um Charlie, what's the running back's name?
The dad's kind of all over the place. There three of them. One's a wide receiver for the Amra St. Brown. The St.
Brown boys. James. Yeah. No, no, it's Amra St. Brown and his brother's dead like three years ago.
Peyton Manning, LeBron. Yeah. So many of these athletes where they're Daryl Strawberry.
I don't know about Daryl Strawberry's dad. Chill. I don't know if Strawberry's dad was a baseball player or what, but you're just throwing out.
You're just throwing out names at this point and I'll just agree. But it's what we see in wrestling. Chill. People will
if Daryl becomes a good wrestler, people will go chill son and he was an all-American. I'm pretty sure he got to
learn everything from the best. McKenzie had that. McKenzie was trained to become a world champion. She was multiple times
over. But so was Vina Janjidoba. Vina Jadoba
got all that same stuff without having the dad that had all that stuff. So the
journeys, while they look different, they're pretty similar. And most would say that the journey's harder for a
Verna Janjadoba than it is for Daniel Cormier II. You know what I'm saying?
Than it is for Theo Sunen because Theo Sunen and my son have access to coaching
gym. Whatever they need, they have. But Vera didn't. Verna took hard work and
turned it in to an opportunity to become a UFC champion. Yeah. Now Angelova's special. Sorry to cut
your thought off. Yeah, I mean she's very rough. McKenzie is a very beautiful style, right? She really flows and you
can see the technician and the technique. You can see the setup and the thoughts. That's not like that. That's not like
that with her opponent. I mean, she is rough. She's a cage fighter and and yeah, when I saw them fight the first
time and I saw them get all those minutes in, it was one of these things where I go, you know, I'm I'm not satisfied with what I saw. I'm not
satisfied that if I saw it again, this wouldn't go different. It's just kind of based on what positions the fights end
up in. The more time they can do on the ground, specifically with McKenzie on top is going to be good. But I can make
that same statement in reverse. And I can also make that up against the fence. Whoever is controlling that position,
it's likely to win this contest. A fight ago, does it matter? Because they're both much different. Mackenzie
is a better striker today than she was 5 years ago. She doesn't have to rely on her toughness as much because you're
right. For as beautiful as Mackenzie Durn may be, right? She is a girl that is tough. I watched her get beat up by
Jessica Andra and never quit on herself. Veradova, same thing. She's hardnosed. They're not
the same athletes that they were 5 years ago. So, does that first fight even matter or we looking at just a different
uh fight completely? Psychologically, it matters. They don't forget one another. Psychologically, you
could have felt a guy in a workout room at a camp when you were 14 years old. You meet up in the NCAA finals. You
remember that moment. And the good news is we call it the mask is off. People have a fear. They have an aura about
them. Uh Anderson Silva, Mike Tyson, guys like this. But but if you can rematch them, the mask is off. That aura
is gone. And if you've been in there and you've worked out with someone or in this case even competed with them, those things do matter to a degree. I can
remember when Tommy Hearns was going to rematch Sugar Ray Leonard. There was an eight-year gap and people were trying to
say the first fight doesn't matter. They're not the same guys. Well, it matters to them. The whole reason they
got in there a second time is they hadn't let that event go from eight years ago. And I got some grudges that
same way, Daniel. I had guys that picked on me in high school. I don't forget those guys. And there's a little bit of
intimidation that's in my heart. And I mean, I'm I'm just sharing with you like we don't really let those things go as
as as much as we like to tell the public that we're so different. Not really. The
the techniques that you use today are the techniques that you learned 10 years ago. So, I'm just I'm just sharing with
you it does and is relevant to a degree, particularly on the psychological side
of things. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world. Chill, Monday's headline. What is it going to be?
Daniel, there's a chance. There's a chance that the headline is greatest heavyweight in the world, Jon Jones. Jon
Jones is tied to this fight. If Surreal gone comes out of there with the belt, I do not think Surreal is going to be the
marquee fighter and highly in demand. I think all attention is going to go to Jon Jones. That's my hot take of the
day. And we're a little ways from it. If you want to know what it's going to be, it's going to be and still Tom Aspenol.
I think you're right though. I'm going to agree with you. Monday's headline will be something about Jon Jones.
Something. It'll either be, "Well, Tom Aspenol looks so good, he has to fight
Jones or it'll be Sir Gan just became the heavyweight champion. Is Jon Jones still the best heavyweight in the
world?" It something Jon Jones will lead the charge on Monday because it'll be he
either has to fight Tom or he already beat the guy that now holds the UFC heavyweight championship so he's still
the best. Yeah, I agree with you. It'll be Jon Jones in Monday's headline. Chill. But this week's headline, we
didn't have a show Monday, but Rainineer Ditter went into that fight in Canada
last weekend with all the juice. Chill. He had it all, man. He was one fight
away from potentially sealing a UFC title opportunity. He had all the momentum. Chill. We were just We We were
all just over RDR and chill. It was bad. Let me read the statement that his coach
said real quick before you go in. His coach said, "After a very strong start
in first round, things quickly started failing and we couldn't really recover from the shots. And after the second
round, I made the call to stop the fight. After the fourth round,
I take full responsibility for that decision and it was the right call to make for me in the moment. It's not a
decision I ever wanted to make, but I guess sometimes you have to. My job as a coach is to coach, but also to look out
for my fighter health. I've been with Rineer for basically his whole career and saw too many signs that made me step
in. If I didn't do anything, he would have continued the fight. But rather than risk unnecessary damage, I decided
to call it a day, go home as healthy as possible, and we would live to fight another day. Do you agree that that
coach should have done that? saved Rainineer Ditter from the the the
moment. I I absolutely do and I have a very different opinion than some people. In baseball, they call it the mercy rule,
but where it looks like this game cannot be reversed, get him out of there. In amateur wrestling, we call it a
technical fall, but when there is a gap so big that it is not reasonable that
this match is going to change, just stop the thing. I believe the fighter should get out of there when he can no longer
win the contest, not when he can no longer take any more damage. There was nothing about the momentum of that fight
that was going to swing back in RDR's way. And for a coach to get him to the back in one, he didn't hurt anybody. I
mean, there's a lot of people that now in our sport, if you quit on your school stool, it's the worst thing you can do.
So, the coach didn't want to make it clear. He didn't quit. I stopped the fight. I think that's fair game. It didn't take away from Brennan Allen's
glorious moment. It didn't take away from pundits like you and I being able to look back and to enjoy that fight. I
don't think that uh coach owed any explanation. And he was right. His athlete with another five minutes was
not going to win that fight. He barely could get up after each round. After third and fourth round, he could barely
stand up. Honestly, stopping fights is a very, very weird
thing because we had some weird stuff happen last week in Vancouver. Dude, that was some crazy officiating. We had
some wonky judging. We had some weird stuff. And I'm talking some of the greatest officials in the world were at
fault on Saturday. Kevin Holland by the doctor was asked could he continue
multiple times after taking the entire five minutes. You cannot put a fighter in that spot because he will not quit.
You find out if he can continue. You can't allow for another two minutes to pass trying to give him an opportunity
to make a decision when it's only a fiveminute limit. You can't put that in his hands. If he couldn't continue, you
should have stopped it. Kevin Holland went out there and he kept fighting because he is a fighter. Then we had the other fight where a guy gets hit with a
low blow, right? The referee says it's a hard warning. Goes back. It was Drew
Dober's fight. He goes back and says, "I changed my mind. I'm going to give one
minute." But the poor kid that he was fighting, Chale, was so severely damaged
that he's riding and playing on the ground. Drew's kind of relaxing. He lo he he lose the point, but then he had a
fiveminute break. He goes out and he finishes the fight. So ultimately, it felt like the other guy was the one that
got the bad end of the stick on that side. So yes, Reneer Ditter's coach took
it out of his hands because he would have never made that call. His body showed you that he was done. His body
told me honestly that Brennan Allen saw something in the training room even though BA said I would never train with
this guy because I knew at some point we would fight. He saw something in the gym that told
him that he could push Rainer Da to a point that RDR would get there because
that's how he fought. And I also thought that RDR made some bad decisions over the course of that 22 minutes of that
fight. kept shooting, getting taken down, playing jiu-jitsu. He made mistakes and it showed that he just
needs a little bit more time. But does it change my opinion of Rainer Ditter? Not necessarily. I think he can still be
very good for the weight class. I think he still be very good in the UFC, but it did make me question a little bit of the
fight IQ. Sure. No, I I think that's very fair. And there's two different two different events going on if you're in a three-
round fight or if you're in a five round fight. One thing that really hurt RDR was the success that he had in the first
round. Things went so well. We used to talk about in this industry and it it was just something that Joe Rogan used to mention on the mic a long time many
years ago, but the the term was adrenaline dump. And when an when everything is going so well for an
athlete, in fact, a lot better than he thought it was going to do. Dinner gets his first takedown with a judo throw,
feet flying all through the air, moves right into a full mount, starts scoring points. It's one of these things where
you get relief even more than excitement. You get a relief of, okay, I
got this one. I'm not going to screw this up. The bad news, if five minutes goes by
and you don't finish him, they're going to break the action. They're going to stand you up and you got to start that
whole process over again. And that was the part that I think really uh affected
RDR. I think that's what got his conditioning. Not a bad weight cut or or or lack of notice on the fight. I I
think it was kind of how well that first round went. He felt that relief, created a small adrenaline dump, took his energy
away. Yeah, it took a lot of energy and he kept shooting and getting beat up on the ground. Brennan Allen did a great job.
So, make no mistake about it. RDR is a story because of the way it looked down the stretch, but ultimately it was
Brennan Allen's weekend and he had the greatest performance of his entire career and he should be commended for
what he did in a spot where not many people expected him to do that. One year
ago, chill, Brennan Allen questioned whether or not it was time to walk away from fighting after he got beat by uh by
Fluffy Hernandez and he got beat by Immav. Fast forward one year, he has now
beat Marvin Vtori and Rainineer Der to put himself in the top four in the world. That's how quickly things change
in mixed martial arts. So for fighters that start to question, never quit, man. Things can flip for you very very fast.
Chill. I'mma get some sleep. Man, you know Charlie was yelling at me about getting coffee before. This dude just
made a cup of coffee. It's such a double standard. Bro, he literally just made a cup of coffee. Jill.
They'll never kill Charlie. Daniel. They'll do a lot of things. They'll never get him though. Did you just make a coffee? I did.
He just made a coffee, man. Dude's telling me not to drink coffee. It's too late. All I want to know if is Charlie is
planning to go on a seed. Do with Okamoto. Like, are they still doing that? Charlie. Hey, Charlie won't go on a
seedoo here in Abu Dhabi because there are sharks in the man-made lake that's outside the hotel and he's fighting with
Ray about it. So, yeah, he doesn't have to worry about a shark. He needs to worry about Okamoto t-boning him. That's what he needs to worry
about. Guys, for the bad guy, Chill Sunn, I'm Daniel Cormier. Enjoy UFC 321 this week.
And guys, remember it's at a special t start time, 2:00 Eastern. 2:00 Eastern,
the pay-per-view starts. Until next time. Peace. There it is. Load it up, Chelp.